Prime said: "I disagree with the elder's decision to not initially turn the confession over to the investigating officers and the court without being compelled."-- Perhaps stalling, in regard to turning over evidence, (until forced to do so) is part of an Elders training and mentality..As indicated by the example cited here: "..page 143 of the elders handbook, Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock. This page is left blank, with elders filling in dictated notes. In regards to child abuse the following paragraph is scribed. Child Abuse. Ref Letters: A.B.E Aug 29th 1989 pg 3; LLA 10/10/2002; 28/8/02. Legal ramifications. *In cases of either accusation or allegations of child abuse, immediately contact the society. Do not talk to anyone else. *If a brother or a sister confesses to child abuse, ask them not to speak to anyone else till you get back to them, and contact the society immediately.. ..*If presented with a search warrant or a subpoena, the last resort is to hand over any material. (Cong file) Find out exactly what is wanted and hand over only that. Preferably seek legal advice first. (stall) Read the warrant. Write on envelope Ecclesiastical privilege claimed, not to be opened until matter is determined by court. " http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php
The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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172
Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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Your views and ideas on forum areas and organization?
by Simon inthis may come as a shock to some people, but the current forum structure was kind of thrown together without much real thought and then evolved a bit over time.
there are a few things that particularly grate on me and areas where i don't think the subjects work particularly well.
'friends' is a bit vague and becomes a dumping ground, news & world events vs politics & current affairs is hard to decide sometimes, child abuse is a scandal but isn't contained withing 'scandals & coverups' etc.... with a new forum platform imminent, it's a good time to solicit ideas to improve things.
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The Quiet One
Very sorry if this has been mentioned, but how about having a 'Help' or 'I Need Help With..' section (or any wording you want). Basically, the section would be for anyone who needs or wants somebody to help them with something. It could be a campaign, ideas, references, how to help a Jw they know, good thread on Jwn for a certain topic etc.. I like to help people, as do many others here, but it's very hard to keep up with all the threads.. Whereas this section would allow us all to check in and see who has asked for help. What do you think?
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Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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172
Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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The Quiet One
If anyone wants to get the transcript.. "..so long as it is not sealed (not the norm, but if the case involves domestic violece/PO/NCO), all you have to do is call the Clerk of the Court where his case was handled. Any Clerk can pull the file and tell you whether or not they have a copy of whatever transcript youare in need of. If the Court's file does not have it, they can tell you who the Court Reporter was as well as supply you with that contact information. In either case, be prepared to pay.." http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090826202241AAAa0fN
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Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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An official Jw.org YouTube channel.
by His Excellency inan official jw.org youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/jehovahswitnessesen/videos,
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The Quiet One
Sorry, but there is absolutely no way that this is an official channel.. Think for a second about their policy of not "speaking to apostates, listening" etc. , and then read the comments page.. https://www.youtube.com/user/JehovahsWitnessesEN/discussion
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172
Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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The Quiet One
Prime said:"either way, the stand taken by the organization aids and abets law enforcement." -- Article states: >> "..when detectives asked elders Simon Preyser, Harry Logan and David Scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused" ..and.. "For three years the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before Newcastle Crown Court" ..and.. "Each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by Judge Penny Moreland...Despite the judge’s ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury." ..Seriously Prime, this policy is helpful to law enforcement???
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Why does god kill children?
by Comatose ini was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.
1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.
how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.
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The Quiet One
Also, could you tell me which books (or at least chapters) of the Bible are Gods thoughts/words, preserved faithfully and accurately? And another question comes to mind.. could YOU stab your son to death, even if you 'knew' that he would be healed? Imagine that all such 'communication with God' turned out to be a mental illness, or simply a hopeful and optimistic belief that you merely confirm to yourself as being correct, every time that you hear your own thoughts.. Your son has now bled to death, never to wake up again. Your life as well as his.. has just been destroyed, for a feeling that only you know to be true, and that only you can confirm, with no evidence to prove to anyone but yourself that you were correct to take that life..Yet Abraham, and others like him, placed their own belief and perception of reality above the life of others.. Above even the lives of their own families. Abraham was willing to kill for his belief.. And, if it came to it.. as in Jesus commanded you, so (hypothetically speaking) would you.
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269
Why does god kill children?
by Comatose ini was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.
1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.
how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.
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The Quiet One
Tec..Do you feel, then, that it is morally acceptable to kill someone (or be willing to) if a voice/feeling, that you believe to be God, tells you to? After all, He can just supposedly bring them back [to life]..
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Talking to a JW extremist
by Kool Jo inso i had a conversation with a jw whom i communicate with via skype...the conversation went like this:.
kool jo: hey there, how have you been keeping?.
they're imperfect, but we need to obey them regardless.. kool jo: ok, i see.
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The Quiet One
@Prime-- Who are you talking to? If it's me you were asking, I was quoting the relevant part of the conversation mentioned in the OP. No hypothetical person..Could you a)Explain what you meant and b)Consider replying to the topic you actually started and where people are waiting for a response, before jumping in with a weird unexplained comment on another thread.